HELP PLEASE!! Kent cams URGENT!

[HansJ]

?
What does that mean, "blaming the cams", do You know what have happened to the engine? What cause should the cams be (they had the bike up on the dyno, so what did he mean with "letting You ride off with the cams"? And what with a legal battle? PM if You need advice/want to keep it less public (one never knows who reads forums...)

[phuk72]

Yeah, seems a bit dodgy to me.

Either the garage set them up correctly or they didn't

If they thought that there were any problems, they should have told you

[Killerwhale]

Yeah, seems a bit dodgy to me.

Either the garage set them up correctly or they didn't

If they thought that there were any problems, they should have told you

I just got this mail from the owner/mechanic:

"Hello mattias.



The top gasket has blown, probably a fabrication fault, nothing else is damaged!

Should we put in your original cams or the kentcams, if we are to put in the kentcams we want adjustable camchainwheels. (wich probably going to set ME back x amount of euros!)

Let me know

Regards magnus"

To ME it sounds as they´ve put in to much oil in the motor and after my start on the swedish freeway the top gasket blew.....
The request to do slotted cam wheels seems as a thing to earn a little on their mistake....!?

Could anyone make an input on experience here!?

ALSO, the oil was put in before starting to bench the new cams....they tried this and that....if the oil did the 6hp decrease.....they sure made ME pay for it with a bill at 1200€!!!

Should i go for the swedish consumer agency or should i settle for a fixed bike no questions asked!? I´ve got the feeling that the overfill was the error all the time....not the kent cams....as they are HUGE they will most certainly have a rigorous quality control!!

Cheers, thanX 4 your input!!

[phuk72]

[
I just got this mail from the owner/mechanic:

"Hello mattias.

The top gasket has blown, probably a fabrication fault, nothing else is damaged!

Should we put in your original cams or the kentcams, if we are to put in the kentcams we want adjustable camchainwheels. (wich probably going to set ME back x amount of euros!)

Let me know

Regards magnus"

To ME it sounds as they´ve put in to much oil in the motor and after my start on the swedish freeway the top gasket blew.....
The request to do slotted cam wheels seems as a thing to earn a little on their mistake....!?

Could anyone make an input on experience here!?

ALSO, the oil was put in before starting to bench the new cams....they tried this and that....if the oil did the 6hp decrease.....they sure made ME pay for it with a bill at 1200€!!!

Should i go for the swedish consumer agency or should i settle for a fixed bike no questions asked!? I´ve got the feeling that the overfill was the error all the time....not the kent cams....as they are HUGE they will most certainly have a rigorous quality control!!

Cheers, thanX 4 your input!!

I cosider it very unlikley (although not impossible) that the head gasket was faulty. Much more likely was that it was not installed correctly - especially given it's failure so early.

And how can they be so certain nothing else is damaged? Have they checked all of the valve and oil seals, oil pump, crank etc. Are the valves OK?

A vehicle usually runs with a blown head gasket - just very hot! You suggest the engine blew and stopped running. Doesn't sound like a head gasket problem to me. Has oil entered the cooling system? that'll need flushing.

This garage does not sound like it knows what it is doing to me. If they are now saying that they need slotted cam sprockets to set up the cams properly, how did they set them up before? Are they saying that they knew the timing was out when you left?

Neither Honk or me needed slotted cam sprockets to set the timing! (But they should cost less than 50 euros to have it done)

Also the bill is a bit high IMHO. 1200 euros is about £820 which seems high for just dropping in some cams and timing them, a head gasket and lots of oil and a filter! Even when you add in a couple of hours dyno time, this is rude.

Is there another mechanic / dyno you can use? If yes, demand all of your money back and use that person instead.

If not, I'd be wanting my bike fixed for free and a good lump of money back from what I had already paid. Although, I wouldn't be happy about this as it seems that they can't even fill a bike with oil!

Speak to the garage first and see what they propose. If you don't like what they say, tell them you are going to seek consumer / legal advice and then see what they say.

[jpe]

....although i actually started to look for a TRX specimen online today...

I have a fast one standing in the garage...

Sorry, but I can't understand how they managed to botch such a "simple" job. Could have done it in my garage honestly (have actually) so you should not have to pay another penny to get your bike ready for road in another week!

[HansJ]

Something's definitely wrong. Kent expects +6 HP, the workshop did a Stage 1 tuning of the head, worth a couple of extra ponies, and ends up with 6 HP less than from the beginning. And claim they moved the timing one tooth forward and backward but didn't find the lost ponies, so I can't see how slotted sprockets would help them finding another 15? And I agree with Phuk, blowing a gasket coincidentally right after the workshop's visit, sure it can happen, but? To be honest, I don't see the high oil level causing the problems either (and the blown head gasket could be the cause itself for a high oil level). What they have done is a mystery, anyways, the end result should be more HPs and no more payments.

[Quan-Time]

i cant believe they wouldnt have put new buttons under the valve cups.. That would DEF cause loss of HP, and ive heard it can spit gaskets as the result, thus, more oil all over the place.*

*ive only HEARD of this, ive never met anyone who can confirm or deny it, so take that with a pinch of salt.

[phuk72]

KW - was the head ported and flowed as well? Were the valve seats recut?

If yes, then it is very likley that new shims would have been needed.

<thinking out loud>
If they didn't reshim there is no way they could have got the valve clearances right.

But if they didn't reshim and didn't check the valve clearances then this could have had an effect on the loss of BHP - combined with a stupid amount of oil - and have caused the loss of oil and damage to head gasket
<thinking out loud ends>

[HansJ]

KW - was the head ported and flowed as well? Were the valve seats recut?

If yes, then it is very likley that new shims would have been needed.

<thinking out loud>
If they didn't reshim there is no way they could have got the valve clearances right.

But if they didn't reshim and didn't check the valve clearances then this could have had an effect on the loss of BHP - combined with a stupid amount of oil - and have caused the loss of oil and damage to head gasket
<thinking out loud ends>

I agree on this, and especially since Kent regrinds the cams and thus reducing the over-all diameter of the cam lobes, they must have re-shimmed, and if not, this could very well cause a loss in HP. But how should the amount of engine oil cause a blown gasket? I can't figure that one out, especially since we have dry-sump engines, but I might overlook something?

[phuk72]

KW - was the head ported and flowed as well? Were the valve seats recut?

If yes, then it is very likley that new shims would have been needed.

<thinking out loud>
If they didn't reshim there is no way they could have got the valve clearances right.

But if they didn't reshim and didn't check the valve clearances then this could have had an effect on the loss of BHP - combined with a stupid amount of oil - and have caused the loss of oil and damage to head gasket
<thinking out loud ends>

I agree on this, and especially since Kent regrinds the cams and thus reducing the over-all diameter of the cam lobes, they must have re-shimmed, and if not, this could very well cause a loss in HP. But how should the amount of engine oil cause a blown gasket? I can't figure that one out, especially since we have dry-sump engines, but I might overlook something?

I was thinking of oil loss and HG blowing as 2 separate issues.

The valves not be shimmed correctly would allow the escape of oil and the incorrect timing / valves not sealing correctly could lead to preignition (or whatever the opposite of that is) which leads to masive stress on the HG.

I'm still very surprised about the HG diagnosis though and would be interested to understand how this conclusion has been drawn.

[HansJ]

Right, I agree. Smaller cam lobes would increase the valve clearence, valve seat cutting would decrease it. The question is what work thay've done, and since they clearly have f**ked up, we might never get to know the truth...
How do You mean the clearance should allow more oil loss? And i am not sure there was an oil loss problem, I understood it as after the engine stopped, KW thought he had too much oil in the engine. The smoke cloud would also fit with a blown HG, or? I'd guess a blown HG could cause the oil level to increase, because of coolant getting into the crankcase?
It's a mystery, I'd love to get the hands on that engine and try to figure out what happened. CSI TRX

[phuk72]

I'd love to get the hands on that engine and try to figure out what happened. CSI TRX

You and me both

[Killerwhale]

KW - was the head ported and flowed as well? Were the valve seats recut?

Just a very mild port, kinda heavy cleaning (that was what i have ordered anyway)
Was charged for gasket set, 10 shims and 15 work hours.

[phuk72]

15 hours labour - that seems high?

And I'm surprised (which you can take to mean "I don't believe") that all of the shims had to be replaced. I'd ask for the old ones back

[phuk72]

Has he fixed it yet?