direct access. it needs to be changed. (edit)

[brockzila]

well i passed my test yesterday. i had a new zealand lisence but when i tried to swap it for a uk one they gave me nothing. i took the bike off the road not long after that as the insurance expired and i could not get more. i still dont have to much more experence on any thing more than 250s and a 400. im still pretty green out on the open road. but am looking foward to slowly getting there. im not going to rush things.

how can they say that i am now prepared to ride a r1 or a gsxr or a TRX. im not going to bad mouth the guys who i sat it with they were all top blokes. but it was only enough to pass the test, there was nothing on conering technique or any high speed work other than a 500m blast down the a1/a41, no filtering, counter stear was not looked at. i am now legaly aloud to kill my self on what ever bike i wish.

No wonder so many new bikers die every year if this is all the training they get before getting on a 1000cc sports bike.

[gregs656]

the test is not bad, but it is an urban based test. You do have to apply an ounce of common sense once you've passed, some people jump on the latest sports bikes and either scare them selves off the thing or become shite riders - REALLY fast on the straights then wobble round corners!

It's a shame it's like that, but I would rather have the existing test and encourage people do be sensible about it than introduce an expensive, complicated tiered test like I expect to see in the next few years!

[youngy]

What course did you take? DAS? Then you've been trained to a standard to pass your test. If you want more then get some advanced training. I doubt that a test in any other EU country would include the things you mention.

[phuk72]

you get taught to pass the test, not to ride a bike

[brockzila]

yeah i know you get taught to pass the test only.
But the whole purpose of the DA is to allow a new rider "direct arccess" to big bikes. all i diid on the DA was the same as i did on my CBT but on a gs500. I dont see how it proves that I am capable of handling a big bike with enough skill to survive.
It is a great scheme. To get a full licence back home take something like 2 years. But it deffinetly needs to be modified. A day out of the city, and some class work to teach some of what i mentioned above. At least then a new rider will have an idea about some of the basic skills. They can then build on these skills at their own pace.
I am deffinatly planning on doing more training to improve my skills.

[youngy]

maybe a new rider would have got more training, but as you're experienced the instructors felt you didn't need it?

[brockzila]

this is true.
but in talking to the instructers, they said that they only teach to pass the course.
in the tim ei was there i saw the result of two learners falling off bikes one with quite major damage. and yesterday while having a smoke with my instructer after passing, we saw a bike get dropped while the guy was sitting on it parked.
so i guess they have alot to do just to get some people to pass.

[youngy]

congrats on passing by the way!

[brockzila]

cheers 2nd time lucky. i failed a couple of weeks ago for leaving my flasher on.

[Kevtrx849]

In Queensland they have whats called Qride. It's for car licence holders to get a full bike licence. The main problem is that it's run by dealerships that only have there own interests at heart ie they get to sell a big bike if the client passes the test. Been a few that have died on the way home from the test on a new big bike. Theres talk of it all changing due to the statistics on bike accidents. I blame all the tourist/backpackers that rent the scooters down the coast and then get run over Our new government is very anti bike so we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out. The times they are a changin'.

[burty]

No wonder so many new bikers die every year if this is all the training they get before getting on a 1000cc sports bike.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, and it seems ridiculous that you can pass your test having only ridden a basic 500cc twin for a couple of days and not exceeded 60 mph for more than a few minutes and not more than 70mph at all and then can legally get on an R1 to throw yourself into the scenery. But I don't think it's actually the case that it's lots of new bikers that die every year.

What I mean is I don't think that its the case that a higher proportion of biker deaths are new or in-experienced bikers. Although I have not seen stats to show it either way.

Also I suspect that if you analyse accidents amongst inexperienced riders, then you would find that the most significant factor in the accident is inexperience not engine capacity of the bike, if that makes sense.

BTW, if you are worried about filtering, then don't. Or when you do, be very cautious and expect every car to do the unexpected (change lanes or U-turn without looking) Don't get on the blind side of lorries. Don't filter when there are junctions either side, don't filter into or onto roundabouts. Treat every individual vehicle as a separate hazard. Be careful where there are spaces or gaps in traffic. If in doubt filter very slowly, and be prepared to move out of the way for more experienced or less cautious riders.

As for cornering techniques, take it gently. Initially worry about getting the lines for the corners right rather than going fast.

[madivi]

You can challenge yourself as a freeclimber without any test at all.
So what about that?
Don't blame instruction policies for something everybody should have: a little bit of common sense.

[idl1975]

You can challenge yourself as a freeclimber without any test at all.
So what about that?
Don't blame instruction policies for something everybody should have: a little bit of common sense.

How are you going to know what you need to know to exercise common sense, unless someone teaches it to you? Riding a fast motorcycle is something that has to be explained, learned and practiced, and new riders need to understand what the issues are before they can apply common sense to them. They are taught to a standard of bare competence in doing the easy things (30mph trundling in a straight line), with no or almost no exposure to or awareness of the hard things. And "learning by doing" doesn't necessarily work if one mistake means you end up under a lorry.

And as we licence and regulate riders and drivers and (in most countries) don't provide comprehensive public transport solutions (where we can choose to travel by a means where the responsibilty for competence is on the system or the operator and its employees, not "us"), we should probably be making sure people are competent to control their vehicles, if only to protect other road users and members of the public. If I have to commute every day with a bunch of t**** in cars, I want them to be VERY well trained in not killing me, not relied on to exercise common sense.

I got my first licence in Singapore - very comprehensive multi-stage assessment program just for 125s, with seperate, stepped licencing for 250s and 400s+. When I lived in the US, I had to re-test, and the practical test in Massachusetts was...doing three figure-eights in a car park. I s*** you not. So there ARE things stupider than the DAS syllabus. In case you're wondering, the theory test contained questions like "why should you wear a helmet" - choose from 4 multiple choice answers.

Personally, I think far, far more time needs to be spent on low speed and low traction control, and a decent amount of time on basic performance riding principles. The emphasis now is on getting people wobbling around a few cones (and suchlike) so that, as Brock says, you can get them wobbling around town ASAP and ready to pass the test. But your low-speed control is really a foundational skill for controlling the bike and not just being a passenger, because it teaches you how to use your entire body to control the bike, and how to seperate what your body is doing from what the bike's doing. Not enough time is spent on teaching people to control the bike, and you're then not equipped to deal with a bike that's come slightly unstuck or a situation where new riders overcook a corner and don't dare lean the bike over. Probably more obvious is the lack of theoretical and practical training in analysing and tackling corners properly, which of course you can do with a big enough carpark/paddock (doesn't have to be done at 110mph, after all).

[Jak]

No wonder so many new bikers die every year if this is all the training they get before getting on a 1000cc sports bike.

....
What I mean is I don't think that its the case that a higher proportion of biker deaths are new or in-experienced bikers. Although I have not seen stats to show it either way.

I have a report on my pc somewhere ... sure we've discussed it here before ... I'll try and find it. IIRC the "worst" group were born-again bikers. That said - I don't agree with the DAS. The best teacher is surely experience. Whilst the DAS-trained "riders" may not feature high in the number of deaths, I wouldn't be surprised if they figure in a lot of accidents.

That said ... a lot of riders who've been riding for years develop bad habits and become complacent.

[TonyDevil]

i did the DAS, i rode a GS500 for 6months to gain some experience before moving onto the TDM
sure a bit more experience would be nice, but its down to self preservation & common sense
lets be honest, how many people can even ride a 33bhp bike to its limits on the road....not as many as think they could thats for sure....
you can kill yourself just as easily on a 500 as you can a 1000cc