HELP PLEASE!! Kent cams URGENT!

[Killerwhale]

My bike is at a garage now and they´ve installed the kent cams....with a 6HP DECREASE in power at the top....some more in the mid though.

Just off the phone with kent and they said it should GIVE 6HP on top...

What are the tech guy´s at the shop do wrong??

78HP with keihin 41´s and kentcams is just wrong.....it gave 85HP with standard cams...

[Killerwhale]

Update...

Had to pick up the bike before 18:00...
As said it has 78hp instead of 84hp with only the keihins
The bike has 5 nm more tourque throughout but the top power is at 7500 revs instead of 8500 with standard cams.
I´ve actually got 3,5 more hp between 4-6000 revs...

Got to check with kentcams on monday but it´s actually spec. as an enduro cam so could this be right????

[honkdawillydahonk]

Kent cams are re-profiled from the originals for more lift and duration.... so they should be making power up top.... If they are timed correctly from TDC.

[Killerwhale]

Well, i was starting my 400km ride home and after 50km the engine blew in a nice blue cloud.
The IDIOT garage guy had filled up the bike with oil....over the glass window....COLD!!

So guys and girls....what has blown?? Oilrings...gaskets??
I guess that EXTREME oilpressure could be guilty of the 6hp less power!?

[jpe]

Well, i was starting my 400km ride home and after 50km the engine blew in a nice blue cloud.
The IDIOT garage guy had filled up the bike with oil....over the glass window....COLD!!

So guys and girls....what has blown?? Oilrings...gaskets??
I guess that EXTREME oilpressure could be guilty of the 6hp less power!?

Sounds like a competent garage....

As to what's blown, my first guess would be that you now have a lot of oil in the airbox causing the smoke. If that's the case you're lucky, just some cleaning needed and draining some oil from the engine. Second guess is you have blown your new valve seals.
And yes, the oil would probably be the cause of the failing power. Engine would have been reluctant in revving too...

[Killerwhale]

As to what's blown, my first guess would be that you now have a lot of oil in the airbox causing the smoke. If that's the case you're lucky, just some cleaning needed and draining some oil from the engine. Second guess is you have blown your new valve seals.
And yes, the oil would probably be the cause of the failing power. Engine would have been reluctant in revving too...

I kinda HOPE that this is the fault, HansJ had the feeling that they perhaps did not check the rotation of cams when changed.
Then the problems will be.....expensive!

[HansJ]

I cross my fingers I am wrong, but since You said the starter would crank the engine over anymore, I am pessimistic...

[Killerwhale]

I cross my fingers I am wrong, but since You said the starter would crank the engine over anymore, I am pessimistic...

The owner of sölle racing met up this morning and got the bike up in his race bus....said that they had checked rotation of cams before the dyno....and how the hell can you show otherwise...

Anyway, he was a tad optimistic as i never heard any bad noise etc.....but we will see what they find monday morning...

[phuk72]

And you trust the garage to have set the timing correctly when they can't even fill it up with oil correctly?

Depends how much extra oil is in there as to what damage has been done but it could be catastrophic - bearing in mind it has already been hammered through the rev range on the dyno.

Hope it works out well and that the garage pays the bills

[Quan-Time]

blowing blue smoke, prolly oil in the air box as stated previously.. That or flooding thru the oil galleries, thus, more pressure, thus, squirters on your conrods prolly putting out more oil and burning there.. Id start with the airbox first.

Loss of power can be any number of things. TRX dont like non-stock cams unless you can dyno a few times.. They develop flat spots.. And you are forever chasing it around and cant get a nice even curve.. Requires playing with a fair few jets is all. But any dyno place should know this (5valve and carbies)

They prolly balanced it for torque / mid range, but didnt expect top end to do what it did.. It happens.. Thats why dynos were invented, to find out problems and learn what fixes them

Id said drain oil, change filter (it SHOULDNT have popped, but ive heard of it happening), do oil properly, drill some holes in the air box / get a pod of some sort,, and re-dyno.. You should be fine.

If you DONT have a air box mod of some sort, thats your very first plan of attack.. HP = need more oxygen. if you are resticting flow, it CAN have effects like what you are experiencing..

Goodluck and tell us the results !

[phuk72]

blowing blue smoke, prolly oil in the air box as stated previously.. That or flooding thru the oil galleries, thus, more pressure, thus, squirters on your conrods prolly putting out more oil and burning there.. Id start with the airbox first.

Loss of power can be any number of things. TRX dont like non-stock cams unless you can dyno a few times.. They develop flat spots.. And you are forever chasing it around and cant get a nice even curve.. Requires playing with a fair few jets is all. But any dyno place should know this (5valve and carbies)

They prolly balanced it for torque / mid range, but didnt expect top end to do what it did.. It happens.. Thats why dynos were invented, to find out problems and learn what fixes them

Id said drain oil, change filter (it SHOULDNT have popped, but ive heard of it happening), do oil properly, drill some holes in the air box / get a pod of some sort,, and re-dyno.. You should be fine.

If you DONT have a air box mod of some sort, thats your very first plan of attack.. HP = need more oxygen. if you are resticting flow, it CAN have effects like what you are experiencing..

Goodluck and tell us the results !

I think you'll find that KW runs FCR41s with a sock filter so no airbox to look in.

If the cam timings are to TDC and are done properly then that's end of story - the Kent cams are reprofiled so there is negligable benefit to be had from advancing or retarding the timings. The only reason you need to dyno after droppping in the cams is to set up the carbs.

Assuming they did this when it was on the dyno, I would be very worrid that you have lost power. Kent cams are designed (as I understand it) to give at boost in midrange but not over a loss in the top end.

I went for Kent cams over V2 as I was told that the kent cams gave a smoother power curve - and it's so true. This chart is only one I can lay my hands on at the moment (ignore the figures as they are lower than the final bhp) but have a look at the red torque line:

[Killerwhale]

I think you'll find that KW runs FCR41s with a sock filter so no airbox to look in.

True!!
One thing the shop´s owner where really puzzled about was that the lobes of the kentcams where thinner than the originals (wich would result in a shorter lift).....
Could it be that theese are 2 completely different things....Kentcams has fu**d up on the cams and as the mechanic was trying to figure out where the top end loss come from they overfilled my motor!?

....i guess that anything is plausible though....
Girlfriend on her way up there now with my original cams and the haynes, i told them to drain the oil and measure it up.....

[HansJ]

I think you'll find that KW runs FCR41s with a sock filter so no airbox to look in.

True!!
One thing the shop´s owner where really puzzled about was that the lobes of the kentcams where thinner than the originals (wich would result in a shorter lift).....
Could it be that theese are 2 completely different things....Kentcams has fu**d up on the cams and as the mechanic was trying to figure out where the top end loss come from they overfilled my motor!?

....i guess that anything is plausible though....
Girlfriend on her way up there now with my original cams and the haynes, i told them to drain the oil and measure it up.....

As I've understood it, Kent takes down the basecircle, i.e. the diameter of the non-lifting parts of the lobes. This means the lobes will look smaller, but the lift may have increased (although not by much, as You can see in the comparison I made somewehre else in this forum). My cams look the same.

But didn't You say the starter wouldn't crank the engine over? I'd suggest that they lift the head first, beofre trying anything else. Or at least looks down the inlets. But maybe I understood You wrong regarding the starter, in that case, forget all my pessimistic comments

[Killerwhale]

As I've understood it, Kent takes down the basecircle, i.e. the diameter of the non-lifting parts of the lobes. This means the lobes will look smaller, but the lift may have increased (although not by much, as You can see in the comparison I made somewehre else in this forum). My cams look the same.

But didn't You say the starter wouldn't crank the engine over? I'd suggest that they lift the head first, beofre trying anything else. Or at least looks down the inlets. But maybe I understood You wrong regarding the starter, in that case, forget all my pessimistic comments

GREAT info!!
Cheers mate!

Regarding the crank, i have to say...perhaps it did turn it over....but as i´ve never had any starting problems with my bike...
Also, i just tried it once and as it did not fire i guessed the effort where useless....and maybe damaging....

[Killerwhale]

Well, GF was up there....and she´s a tuff mofo....
They started talking and of cource the mech blamed the cams....and a really lame one: "Your boyfriend seemed to know his stuff, that´s why i let him ride off with the cams installed" IDIOT! If i knew my stuff i would installed the cams myself!
GF really told him off....bigtime according to her...and she said: "Hope i didn´t f**k things up for you now"

Anyway, keep your thumbs....looks like a legal battle coming up and no bike this summer....although i actually started to look for a TRX specimen online today...

HansJ and i talked a bit and it would have been nice to have a spare bike when you´re commited to the TRX!