Tapered headrace brearings - correct fitment?

[666mph]

Hi everyone. I'm having ongoing headrace problems. I seem to get through a set in about a year, at least they start feeling loose after a year. I originally got the bike with it's original round earing in a cage style head races. These were shagged so I changed for tapered roller style. Anyway, the last time I tried to change the bearings I coouldn't get them to shif so I took it to a bike garage to get them installed. Now i dont know if they've missed a part out or wether I should have an extra washer in there when I changed to the taper roller breaings.
I think me problem is i've got nothing solid between the back of the bearing and the top yoke. At present it put together in the order of -

top bearing
rubber washer
alloy dust cap
castle nut
rubber waster
castle nut
washer with ears that go into the castle nut
top yoke

Having a rubber washer ontop of the bearing seems like a bad idea as it wont give a constant pressure/tighness on the breaing. I thought about leaving the rubber washer out and putting the dust cap on top of the bearing but it's so thin it'd distort when the castle nuts are tightned down.
I recon i'll need to get a washer on the top of the bearing, then the dust cap. Is this what any of you guy are using / should it be this way in the first place?
I've tried tightening the set up i already have enough to eliminate the 'clonking' feeling comming though the suspension/bars but now it's so tight it's steers like a wheelbarrow.

I've attached some links to photos so you can see what i'm on about.



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[url=http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bearingrubberwasherlj3.jpg]

Cheers.

[youngy]

I think that rubber washer goes on the stem before the bearings go on, not on top of the bearings.

Yam service manual page 7-45 has a drawing of it.

[666mph]

Before the bearings go on, as in the first bit to be put on the stem, then the lower roller breaing? If I put it ontop of the alloy dust cover it gets all squished out by the castle nut.

[youngy]

Yes. First piece to go on. Dust cap sits directly on the the bearing. iirc it has a rubber lining.

[rjen]

Right.....now i'm getting confused! I adjusted my steering head bearings recently to get rid of some play. When I took it apart there was a rubber washer inbetween the two ring nuts. When I re-assembled I placed the rubber washer back in the same place but it just gets squashed out when you tighten the second ring nut on the first. I just ditched it as it was obviously doing nothing.
Now I read this thread and look at the diagram in the manual.......Are you saying the rubber washer is part 13 labelled 'plate washer' in the diagram? Secondly if that is so why is part 8 (which sits inbetween the 2 ring nuts) also labelled as 'plate washer'? This surely can't be a rubber washes 'cos like I said before if it is it just gets squished out.
My steering is working perfectly with zero play and has absoultely no tightness so there can't be much wrong, however, I want it to be 100% correct.

[Greg]

I ditched the rubber washer and my stem nut / lock-nuts constantly came loose - re-installed the washer and the tab-washer (make sure it's not in the least bit oily or greasy and it won't squidge out) and now they stay tight... Go figure!

[666mph]

Cool, it's sorted (i hope). I've taken out the rubber washer that was stting ontop of the bearing so now it's installed like this -

top bearing-
alloy dust cover-
1st castle/ring nut-
rubber waster-
2nd castle/ringnut-
washer with the 2 tabs comming off (that fits the grooves on the castle/ring nut)-
top yoke-

Rjen - I can see why the rubber washer between the two castle/ring nuts is confusing. I would have thought you'd lock the two bolts together as that's the way it's been on every other bike i've had but doing that squashes the rubber washer. You cant adjust the steering head bearing with our looseng the top yoke so I guess it's the yoke that locks it rather than the nuts.

I can't help thinking it's a bit of crap design. It'd be better with a propper washer on the bearing, dust cap the 2 locking ring /castle nuts. Maybe this guff with the rubber washers is to space it out so the ignition lock meets the lock point on the frame. I don't know - mine seems to be working right like this, i happy wioth that.

Cheers, for the speedy replies everyone.

[youngy]

that bottom rubber washer is there to stop anything from the top bearing falling into the bottom bearing

[youngy]

Right.....now i'm getting confused! I adjusted my steering head bearings recently to get rid of some play. When I took it apart there was a rubber washer inbetween the two ring nuts. When I re-assembled I placed the rubber washer back in the same place but it just gets squashed out when you tighten the second ring nut on the first. I just ditched it as it was obviously doing nothing.
Now I read this thread and look at the diagram in the manual.......Are you saying the rubber washer is part 13 labelled 'plate washer' in the diagram? Secondly if that is so why is part 8 (which sits inbetween the 2 ring nuts) also labelled as 'plate washer'? This surely can't be a rubber washes 'cos like I said before if it is it just gets squished out.
My steering is working perfectly with zero play and has absoultely no tightness so there can't be much wrong, however, I want it to be 100% correct.

They're both rubber.

I'd suggest that if the rubber washer is squashed out then you're overtightening the top castle nut. From memory Ithink I assembled the 2 castle washers, rubber washer and tab washer and tightened them like that.

[666mph]

I'd suggest that if the rubber washer is squashed out then you're overtightening the top castle nut. From memory Ithink I assembled the 2 castle washers, rubber washer and tab washer and tightened them like that.

I guess this way it'd lock the castle nuts and have enough space for the tab washer - provided the grooves on the castle nuts line up enough, i'll give it a go. As for that rubber washer it can do nothing but squish out with a nut being screwed on it, I never thought that was right. I can't see how it's stop things falling ontop the bottom bearing though - what's in there too fall and how would anything get in there anyway. Maybe i dont need it atall with taper roller bearings.

Anyone have the yamaha microfich (or a link to) to see the correct order of castle nut, tab washers and rubber bits and bobs?

[phuk72]

I'd suggest that if the rubber washer is squashed out then you're overtightening the top castle nut. From memory Ithink I assembled the 2 castle washers, rubber washer and tab washer and tightened them like that.

I guess this way it'd lock the castle nuts and have enough space for the tab washer - provided the grooves on the castle nuts line up enough, i'll give it a go. As for that rubber washer it can do nothing but squish out with a nut being screwed on it, I never thought that was right. I can't see how it's stop things falling ontop the bottom bearing though - what's in there too fall and how would anything get in there anyway. Maybe i dont need it atall with taper roller bearings.

Anyone have the yamaha microfich (or a link to) to see the correct order of castle nut, tab washers and rubber bits and bobs?

A peek in the download section may give you the answer

[youngy]

I'd suggest that if the rubber washer is squashed out then you're overtightening the top castle nut. From memory Ithink I assembled the 2 castle washers, rubber washer and tab washer and tightened them like that.

I guess this way it'd lock the castle nuts and have enough space for the tab washer - provided the grooves on the castle nuts line up enough, i'll give it a go. As for that rubber washer it can do nothing but squish out with a nut being screwed on it, I never thought that was right. I can't see how it's stop things falling ontop the bottom bearing though - what's in there too fall and how would anything get in there anyway. Maybe i dont need it atall with taper roller bearings.

Anyone have the yamaha microfich (or a link to) to see the correct order of castle nut, tab washers and rubber bits and bobs?

The castle nuts can be adjusted slightly to allow the tab washer to fit, but there's no need to graunch them down so much that the rubber washer bulges out.