Friction reducers: snake oil or real benefit?

[arrivisto]

Being a sucker for anything that claims to improve engine efficiency, I am considering buying a UK product, "Activ8", which claims to be an effective friction reducer. Some years ago I tried Slick-50 in a car engine. This is an oil with tiny PTFE (Teflon) particles in suspension. Although I thought I perceived a difference (the placebo effect?), scientific testing has shown that Slick-50 has zero benefits and can even be harmful in that the PTFE can ruin wet clutches and block oilways. Pennsylvania State prosecuted Slick-50 for making false claims.

However, having spoken to an "Activ8" salesman at Northwich's excellent weekend bash, the "Cheshire Thunder-Sprint", I am very tempted. He said that "Activ8" has no solids in suspension, and that it does not coat surfaces, but instead adheres strongly to metal to reduce friction. See: http://www.simplan.co.uk/index.html

"Active 8" is VERY expensive: MRP £75 per litre! What (almost) convinces me is the amazing practical demonstration that salesman gave; and this demo also appears on YouTube: http://www.simplan.co.uk/video.html

But two other things attract me to "Active 8". First, in their "testimonials" section, the great Phil Read says the stuff works on his BMW bike; and also an NSU Ro80 owner says it was a "definite improvement". As I have a small aircraft with a wankel engine (ARV Super2 G-ORIX - http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?c ... gmark=ORIX ) I reckon I might try some "Activ8" in both my TRX and the aircraft.

But first of all: does anyone here have any experience of this snake oil?

[Mincehead]

GOOD quality fully synthetic oils (even good quality mineral oils actually) will give you all the slipperiness you might ever need arrivisto.
Keep ya pounds in ya pocket, the scams in life are many and varied.
I`ve got cans of a dry film lubricant based on molybdenum, I could spray and bake it onto a camshaft and you could run the motor dry of oil without ANY galling occuring between faces.
I used to manufacture flow meters and even in high pressure steam lines this stuff would provide lubrication, it an`t new though been around 50 YEARS in one form or another.
We used Armoloy too:

http://www.armoloycompany.com/tdc.htm

Thin density chrome, amazing slipperiness (low friction coefficient) that stuff and VERY hardwearing.I had my Yamaha SR500 camshaft, (metal sprayed and profiled to my own dimensions) coated in Armoloy.I don`t expect she`ll EVER wear.
Fafnir (the bearing kings) also do their own/similar version of TDC and you can buy bearings coated with it now too I believe.

[M.V.]

Being a sucker for anything that claims to improve engine efficiency, I am considering buying a UK product, "Activ8", which claims to be an effective friction reducer.

Well, take your bike to a dyno, do a run, put the stuff in, do another run.

Compare. Otherwise it's just heresay.

...and that it does not coat surfaces, but instead adheres strongly to metal to reduce friction...

Same thing?

I would be very sceptical, even car oil with friction modifiers is a no no for a wet clutch.

[Rubes]

Liquid-Moly market a motorbike specific additive (MOS2 ANTI-FRICTION ENGINE TREATMENT)for use in both a wet and dry clutch. Never used it and find it hard to see how it could work in a wet clutch.


http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/productmc.htm or for those who speak German

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web. ... _home.html

[Mincehead]

This is a great site for those wishing to learn about oil and various engine requirements:

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Hmmm, the guy behind that site`s a biker too:

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible_bikes.html

[BBB]

remember a bloke selling Activ8 (I think) at donnington years ago. had a demo involving a torque wrench forcing a bit of metal against a rotating drum, put some engine oil on it and got me to force it against the rotating drum, it very quickly jammed up. Bloke then cleaned the oil off and put some Activ8 on it and try as i might i couldn't get it to jam. I was most impressed, didn't buy any though.

If it was any good oil companies would put it in the oil, most of those things are for the US market where engine oil is pretty much just a base oil. read an article in PB many years ago that concluded these additives are mostly placebos at best and damaging at worst. Blocking oil channels and/or coating metal parts, if it's frictionless how will it hold the oil??

avoid, just use good quality oil checking and changing frequently.

[arrivisto]

Activ8 has been discussed also in the LAA flyers website: http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... php?t=1276

Already pilots on that thread are reporting real benefits from using Activ8; and I have decided to use this stuff in both my TRX and my wankel-engined aircraft. I have had discussions with manufacturers of Activ8 and they appear to have sound integrity. They are a family firm based in the UK (originally in Staffordshire, now in Scotland) and they seem to know what they are doing.

[Mincehead]

Hmmm interesting stuff on that other forum, by the way are you ok to have your full name displayed Arrivisto?
I`ll follow your findings closely if I may, can you update this thread with your personal experiences of Active8 please?
Think I`ll do a wee bit of research on it myself, you`ve stirred my inquisitiveness.

http://www.simplan.co.uk/testresults/testresults.html

Yep VERY interesting results that`s for sure.

[DOBBO]

Be careful useing it in bikes with wet clutches, it might make your clutch slip.

[arrivisto]

Be careful using it in bikes with wet clutches. It might make your clutch slip.

They guarantee that it will not produce clutch-slip, unless the clutch is all-metal.

[arrivisto]

Finally, I've bought some of this stuff and have put 100cc in my daughter's Fiat Cinquecento that had just had fresh oil and filter. Of course, it may be a placebo effect, but I do feel that its 899cc engine now runs smoother, more quietly and revs more readily.

So, when my TRX next has new oil and filter, I will give it a dose of Activ8, and see if I reap the same benefits as did Phil Read MBE, 8 times world bike champion, who testified:

I have used this Activ8 friction reducer in the engine/gearbox of my BMW K1100 RS and have felt an improvement in its mid-range performance and the comfortable cruising speed of around 95 mph, now it's around 110 mph. I added some to the diff and soon after felt less drag on the overrun. Overall, it's made the bike feel smoother, faster and more responsive.

(I'm slightly surprised that Phil Read is unaware that a shaft drive bike doesn't have a "diff" as such; but we know what he means!)

I will also use the stuff in an aircraft; I have a small homebuilt aeroplane with a twin-rotor wankel engine that is lubricated by oil-injection into the intake ports and to the main bearings (total-loss, like a 2-stroke). Given that (i) wankel engines tend to run hot, and (ii) the rotor tip seals have a hard time, I'm hoping Activ8 will be beneficial.

[dandywarhol]

I tipped a can of Amtech additive into my Toyota campervan engine before setting off on a Euro tour to Croatia this summer.

An external oil feed pipe failed (not a Toyota original pipe) and emptied the sump (7litres, poor bastards behind must've loved us!) til the pressure light came on on a Belgian autoroute and I had no choice but to drive the 'van off the motorway to a safe hard shoulder, around 200 metres with no pressure - I really thought I'd fcuked the motor but when I fixed the leak and started it up there was no problem and its still exactly the same 4,000 miles later. I'm pretty convinced the "snake oil" saved my motor!

http://www.americantechnology.co.uk/ind ... 2aod5c0v2g

[arrivisto]

At the last oil change, I added a shot of Activ-8. There was no immediate effect, but now that over a thousand miles have passed, the full benefit has been reaped. The TRX feels like a bike that has just completed its running-in period. It is smoother, quieter and more responsive. This Activ8 is amazing stuff!

[Mincehead]

Hmmm interesting, cheers for the update arrivisto.

[lenny]

Years ago when I was racing a TZ750 sidecar, we treated the motor with slick 50 two stroke. Although it did no harm it was impossible to tell if it helped. What was interesting though was that we had an old Holden ute that we treated with slick 50. It was an oil burner and about a week later the oil pressure light came on and out of interest we decided to not put any oil in and see how long it lasted. We probably did about 5000klms before we took it to the wreckers because of body rust and it never missed a beat to our surprise.