Radial Brake Conversion

[Quan-Time]

I replied, but the intertubes ate it

summary: radial gives you a bunch of setup options, this changing your feel / power / whatever. Changing your pads / disk (metal / diameter, wave and hole layout) gives you more options again.

Axial has been "abandoned" to some extent and not developed in this way.

[hjp1968]

Quan-time..... three things
1. Ouch!
2. I'm serious about the EFI
3. Was there a picture of the dash set up all I got was a big blank area!
Keep up the good work!

[sanddune51]

Thanks guys for all the explanations regarding radial calipers and even radial master cylinders. I'll look forward to your video Quan. Radial seems to me something you need to experience to compare to conventional and make your on judgement on. Who knows I might even end up as a convert.

Mark.

[Quan-Time]

If you want EFI, you have to concider a few things first. What throttles you will use, fuel pump, lines, efi unit, etc.
Its not a straight forward exercise. Saying that, i probably could make a "bolt on" kit, but it wouldnt be cheaper than FCRs as you have to modify your cylinder head. Theres possibly an easier way, i can look into it but its not a huge priority currently.

www.tr1x.org for a dodgy build log of the things ive done to my bike. Its a little dated. I should really add a bunch of things ive done.

[Quan-Time]

Please excuse the dust / crap photo. Basically done and on. All bolt up correctly. I need to get 2 new lines made as i dont like the way they sit. Ive not tried to use my previous braided lines, but i suspect they wont fit correctly because of the radial master pump. Either way, ill attempt to get that sorted and then do some comparison work to see how they go.

[Mincehead]

Looking good Quan, I like the scalloped out finish much better and of course they`ll be marginally lighter than leaving them full `meat` as it were.
So, will you be going into cottage production on these adaptors?

[Quan-Time]

I can yes, but i want to fully work out "whats required" so i know what to provide / advise.

I can say now i had to custom machine all the bolts. I have mine in stainless and there is no such animal in the size i needed. Zinc plated was possible, but yeah.. Me being me.

[Mincehead]

Yes noticed the SS fasteners, metric fine Quan or was it simply the length required PLUS the metric fine thread that caused the problems with standard fasteners?

[Quan-Time]

M10x1.25 @65mm long. Supplier said no such animal in stainless. I got some in 120mm long (M10x1.5), cut the thread off, re-cut new thread to length in the lathe.

Im sure with enough digging, or even just getting some online, but yeah.. He had some 120mm in stock, and it took all of 1.5hrs to cut all 8 to correct size. So no huge deal. They do supply zinc coated in the correct size / length. May be a MUCH easier option.. ALso inherently cheaper.

[Kayla]

But, if you're tapping the thread in the adapter then you don't need to use a fine pitch surely? Brembo axial calipers have a standard (and readily available/cheaper) M10x1.5 pitch thread and they work fine.

[Mincehead]

I takes a woman to think along such rational paths, you`re right of course why not simply tap M10 x 1.5 standard metric pitch?
Quan, I thought you were an engineer?

[Quan-Time]

I am. Load forces people. Load forces..

Its fine pitch for a reason.

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EDIT
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Wait, brembo radials are 10x1.5 ? Interesting. Ill crunch a few numbers and see how i go. But i can promise you that axial are 10x1.25 for a reason. The load forces are different on axial VS radial. I can see why they may get away with less core diameter.
The fact i used stainless too would be better, it has a fair amount of give in it. Its somewhat "springy". HT (high-tensile) just tends to shear and snap at a certain point.
Again, zinc plated HT are readily available. So thats always an option.

[Mincehead]

Yes I see now, but by increasing the physical length of that thread surely you`ll recoup some of the losses experienced by using a coarser/ stock metric thread?
What torque will you be tightening them too Quan?
Of course being Stainless means they`ll not be able to withstand carbon steel fastener torque figures:

http://www.imperialinc.com/pdf/A_Fasten ... Charts.pdf

[Quan-Time]

And the fact its tapped into alu means ill NEVER be able to torque them up past 100nm anyway. 60nm is a "nominal" max retention in alu, but anything over 50 would be excessive.

Because stainless has that bit of give in it, thats the point of them.
we are not talking about much difference in shear strength. ~49KN (kilo neuton) VS ~46KN.

Not a huge change from 1.25 to 1.5mm pitch. Its also interesting to note that axial calipers are TRUE shear, while radial is not. Its also interesting to note that radials have a 14mm locating dowel, 10mm hollow (more like 10.2mm for clearance).

If you take that into concideration, as THATS taking the shear force (~121KN) its actually quite possible to use a "normal" 8.8 grade 10x1.5 bolt.

DAMN YOU AND YOUR WOMAN LOGIC KAYLA !!!

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EDIT
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Forgot to carry the decimal properly on my math conversion. I only noticed it because it was SPASTICALLY low.. Checked up the PDF that mincer linked.. Least i got part of it right

[Kayla]

Wait, brembo radials are 10x1.5 ? Interesting. Ill crunch a few numbers and see how i go. But i can promise you that axial are 10x1.25 for a reason. The load forces are different on axial VS radial. I can see why they may get away with less core diameter.

No, Brembo axials (certainly the 40mm and 65mm ones fitted to Ducatis and Aprilias) are 10x1.5, Japanese axials (blue/gold spots and other Sumitomos like standard TRX and YZF750 6 pots) are 10x1.25

I've used both 40mm and 65mm Brembos on bikes in the past so I know they use the coarser thread

The tiny, weeny rear Brembos they use just use M8x1.25 whereas Japanese calipers still use the mahoooosive 10x1.25 I shall be nailing an itsy bitsy, teeny weeny, yellow polka dot Brembo to my TZR