Braking Question.

[Kenvis Repesco]

I have Blue spot calipers on my TRX but the front brakes are terrible. I was just wondering if R1 R6 master cylinder etc should be used with these calipers and that is the problem. The discs are in good condition and there seems to be meat on the pads. Thanks David.

[Mincehead]

The standard TRX master cylinder is 5/8" (16mm thereabouts) and does give a wooden feel as many have found. Upgrading to an R1 or 6, 14mm master cylinder will give the feel you are looking for.
You can improve it further by fitting a later Yamaha radial m/c or further still with aftermarket variable lever ratio radial m/c`s too but of course you are looking at over 200 quid for one.
I trust your bluespots are functioning correctly, no sticking pistons?
To check this you can take the pads out, (one caliper at a time) use a suitably sized piece of soft wood and apply the brake til you can hear it `crunch` the wood a tad, then release the brake lever and watch the pistons as you do it. they should retract on release of the lever not all the way back obviously but there should be a visible retraction. They should also move back into their recesses by firm finger / thumb pressure. To be honest you can use anything soft and compressable between the pistons but softwood is my favourite, you can lean on the lever a little checking for any fluid leaks at bleed nipples and banjo`s using the wood method too.
Once you`ve confirmed the pistons are free you can reassemble the pads and pins in the calipers. By the way, steer clear of copper grease it can cause electrolysis and more corrosion, best go the red silicon, rubber friendly grease on the pad edges:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_pppn= ... _kw=grease

This can safely be used sparingly but of course DO NOT get any on the pad friction surface.

[Red Rex]

... or you can put the tip of a flat-bladed screwdriver between the 'tabs' on the brake pad and the disc and apply a gentle twist (Gently mind!) to "push" the pad & piston back into the caliper.
When you work the brake lever you should feel the pads move.
I've got blue spots with standard master cylinder and my brakes work fine ... One or two fingers is enough for pretty much any situation.

[Mincehead]

I`m wondering if the pads have become contaminated with something Kenvis Repesco, you`ve recently bought this TRX so perhaps the previous owner used to get carried away with silicon sprays etc. If all seems fine with the calipers and pistons it may well be best to replace the pads with new.

[Stankflapper]

I don't mean to come across as a prick here, but I have always been and advocate of "let the people who are qualified do it" system. Brakes on any motor vehicle are a major safety feature, and should something go catastrophically wrong the outcome is not good. I know that I will be probably hailed down with some saying that bakes are simple,, and they are relatively,,, to the people who know,,, however there have been deaths here(being the worst outcome) where people who are guessing they have done the correct job on their brakes.

[Mincehead]

It`s not unreasonable to talk about having brakes worked on by those who know what they are doing Stank, I agree 100% with that sentiment but sadly we all know there are many crooks in the motor / motorcycle trade who`ll do little and charge you lots!
Sensible approaches to routine maintenance can, I believe, be undertaken by most folk, especially if they seek advice from those more knowledgable of such things and heed it.
On Friday I got chatting to an Aussie in my street, he works offshore in the oil industry and has recently passed his CBT while home so he`s got a little Yamaha YBR125 parked under cover near my bikes. I was out there at my Skorp when he uncovered his YBR and I immediately noticed he had perhaps 70 mm / 3" of fork slider showing, the forks were actually compressed and STUCK!
I quizzed him about this only to be told, "I had it serviced and that`s how it came back!" He`s not very mechanically minded so I told him to get it back to the shop and tell them it had been like this since it was last serviced, tell them to GET IT SORTED!
Personally I think the forks are bent, if they were not bent before it went into the shop then they have had some sort of accident with it and not come clean with him.
This bike is a wreck for an 09 bike, here`s one on Ebay if you`re not familier with the model:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-YBR-12 ... 4cff6ed02a

BOTH front and back brakes were locked on too, the rear brake actuating arm took several thumps with my nylon mallet to make it return and I had to unbolt the front brake caliper, remove the pads and `persuade` the piston back into the caliper before he could even move the thing!
Of course it was all done as a favour and I wished him well in getting the crooks to sort it out, we`ll see how he goes on.

[Kenvis Repesco]

Thanks for that, I know the guy who owned the bike before me was a great advocate of the use of silicone spray to keep the worst effects of rain at bay if caught in a shower...whether that is a contributory factor in the demise of my front stoppers is anyones guess. I think I will take your advice Mince and replace the front pads. I have been around bikes for over 35 years, I am just not overly familiar with the TRX, but I can completely understand concerns with regards to giving advice on such important matters as anything relating to being able to stop. I think I will try to source an R1 MC as recommended by you guru's. Thanks again David.

[Mincehead]

Go later radial type you`ll not regret it :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R1-front-radi ... 3f152b854d

Or older standard R1 / 6 non radial:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R1-front-brak ... 3cc37eda5e

[Stu99]

I don't mean to come across as a prick here, but I have always been and advocate of "let the people who are qualified do it" system. Brakes on any motor vehicle are a major safety feature, and should something go catastrophically wrong the outcome is not good. I know that I will be probably hailed down with some saying that bakes are simple,, and they are relatively,,, to the people who know,,, however there have been deaths here(being the worst outcome) where people who are guessing they have done the correct job on their brakes.

I agree with what you are saying, BUT and it is a big BUT, unfortunately there are some shoddy mechanics about these days. Also as times are tight, some businesses take short cuts to save money but still charge for a proper job and this can be very dangerous. I once had some front end work done by a shop (with a big reputation) as I didn't have the time. On the way home, at 100km/h everything went pretty sketchy as all the bolts someone forgot to tighten vibrated their way loose and fell out.
I have not taken my bike to a shop since. I have learnt that I trust myself more, especially as I am kinda OCD and check everything at least 3 times.
That said I also have a few mechanic mates as back up if I am unsure of something, not to mention the wealth of information, knowledge and advice available here, especially as it is TRX specific.

[Stankflapper]

I guess everyone has a shoddy tradesman experience at sometime.

I too look at Formula 1 the absolute pinnacle of motor sport, with millions and millions and millions of dollars , hours and ultra technology poured into it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Yet they can still drive off out of the pits with the fuel hose hooked up?? just go figure that one... hahahaha

[Stu99]

Yeah, I'd love to be a fly on the pit garage wall after one of those incidents.
Be a bit of i reckon.

[mikeyb90]

The thing is that you need to be a bit more specific about what is wrong with the brakes,

Are they wooden? Is there a lot of lever travel, do they just not have much braking effect? The fact that it has blue spot calipers or standard calipers doesn't matter that much so long as they are working.

Biggest problem with braking systems is they tend to suffer with neglect and a good clean, re-assemble and bleeding along with a decent set of pads should make all the difference.

As has been previously said if you go smaller on the Master cylinder bore you'll gain a mechanical advantage at the espense of a slightly increased lever travel. Also stay away from anything with mineral oil in it, such as copper slip and use only brake cleaner to clean the brakes.

You can always get the job done but with a bit of application and thought its really not that difficult and brake systems essentially haven't changed much in decades

[scotsy]

During my search for improving my front brakes for my upcoming 3rd trackday i have brought this thread back to life to ask if you lot could advise me on a good brand of pad for use by a trackday novice (done 2, i dry and 1 wet)

I will be checking and cleaning the caliper pistons as advised earlier (already got a large can of brake cleaner and a tooth brush ) and should inform you that i have bluespot calipers and braided hoses fitted

I might as well treat the old girl to some new pads while i'm fettling so i also need to know what model of bike do i buy for? (i'm assuming the TRX std pads are a different size or shape than the bluespot doner) so is the blue spot caliper from an R6 or should i just take the pad into a shop to match them up?

Thanks
Ian

[misterdimwiddy]

I use Brembo SC pads in my Blue Spots with R6 (non-radial) master cylinder. These are sold as sintered road/track pads.

Pricey (about £80 for two sets) but really powerful and good feel. Good in the wet too. Not worried about wear rates as I only do track days on my TRX.

Purchased from A&R Racing Services, Wells, Somerset. Highly recommended seller.

Can't recall part number but they were the Brembo equivalent of EBC FA252HH pads which I believe suit 98-06 R1 Blue spots.

[scotsy]

I use Brembo SC pads in my Blue Spots with R6 (non-radial) master cylinder. These are sold as sintered road/track pads.

Pricey (about £80 for two sets) but really powerful and good feel. Good in the wet too. Not worried about wear rates as I only do track days on my TRX.

Purchased from A&R Racing Services, Wells, Somerset. Highly recommended seller.

Can't recall part number but they were the Brembo equivalent of EBC FA252HH pads which I believe suit 98-06 R1 Blue spots.

Thanks, if i can't source them in time I'll buy the EBC FA252HH as a stopgap cos i need to prepare the bike on Sunday and I'm working away until friday evening

Ian